Josh F. 02A

 

1st/2nd sync assembly

Reverse gear

2nd sync ring

2nd gear

1st gear

 

Update 7/30/08

Output shaft arrived in mail today, complete stripping shaft down to just tapered bearings left by 2:30pm

Chipped 2nd gear, with another chip exactly opposite from first chip, from puller damage...

Shaft roller bearing race, which looks a bit worn to me (the bearing will still be pressed into the case)..

Thrust washer above 4th gear...

4th gear needle bearing race, which looks OK so far...

4th gear and needle bearing orientation...

3rd/4th sync hub assembly...

3rd gear and needle bearing orientation...

2nd gear thrust washer...

2nd gear and needle bearing orientation...

Circlip securing the 1st/2nd sync assembly to the shaft, I have to check, but it is likely a one time use part...

Pulling the 1st/2nd sync assembly, 1st gear, and the bearing plate from the shaft...

1st gear and needle bearing orientation...

High resolution pic of the large taper bearing outer race, which looks worn enough to replace to me since it is apart...

Thrust washer under 1st gear...

That's it for right now.... I'll store the shaft and parts until the good used parts arrive.

I'd replace the 2 tapered bearings, and the roller bearing at the top of the shaft so far. The gear needle bearings look OK, which is fairly normal. The tapers look worn, which is also normal. The roller bearings on the 020 are usually not bad, but this one in your 02A looks bad enough I'd probably replace it if it were mine.

I'll get the parts cleaned and inspected, measure the sync ring gaps, and get it assembled when the new parts arrive.

Let me know about the tapered bearings, and I'll get those pulled off and get the numbers from them, and get you a price for new Timken bearings for it, which will most likely be cheaper than buying the bearings through the dealer. Not only will they be cheaper, but VW will sell you the entire bearing clamping plate as part of the large taper bearing (just as they do with the 020), so it will not be cheap at all.

The tapered bearings on this shaft are the same bearings used in the 020 trans, and I have them in stock if needed. The large bearing is an 020 diff bearing, and the small bearing is the same small bearing on the 020 output shaft (and the rear wheel bearing on MK1/2/3 cars, and the front wheel bearing on nearly every air cooled VW... they sure know how to get the most out of a part design!!)

 

Update 8/2/08

I've pulled the shaft and bearing plate out of the parts washer and they're clean enough to inspect closely, and there is wear on the shaft where 2nd gear needle bearing rides, and this is the first time I have seen this, but the shaft where 1st gear needle bearing rides isn't round and true. It has indents where each roller has managed to 'dent' the metal... as best as I am aware, this is called False Brinell damage and you can read about it here http://www.emersonbearing.com/fail_falsebrinell.htm

What is the history on the trans? Has it been stored or spent a lot of time in 1st gear, or anything like that? Was it noisy before taking it apart? Has it been apart before? Was it rebuilt before, possibly with a new 1st needle bearing that might be hiding old damage?

I wasn't sure if it was False Brinell or if it was a true Brinell dent from sharp physical contact between the bearing and the race. One side of the shaft has more damage than the other, which first led me to think that it was physical damage on one side of the gear set (dropped, hammered, in a wreck, something like that) but it doesn't show the correct signs of true Brinell damage. I examined it from 60x to 100x under a scope, and it doesn't have a shoulder surrounding the damage like a dent from impact would have, this seems to be False Brinelling.

I've pulled one roller needle out of the 1st gear bearing that was on the shaft, it seems to be round and true, which would not indicate a high energy impact like in a true Brinell dent. I would think the actual roller would show damage with False Brinell damage, but I've not located an answer yet.

If the trans is in 1st gear, the gear is locked to the shaft, and the bearing doesn't spin. This is the type of environment where False Brinell damage occurs, but I'm not sure why, if the old 1st gear was a little loose, if the actual needle bearing is worn and allowed the clearance needed for the damage to occur when the bearing wasn't spinning, or what.

The actual bearing, while it looks OK, can be replaced if you want for $6. They are the same bearing as the 5th needle in the 020, so I have it in stock. I'm not sure what to suggest here... there is shaft damage, so I'm not sure putting a new bearing in is a good idea. I'm also not sure leaving the old one in there is a good idea. I've not got the gear out of the parts washer yet to inspect the inside of it, where the needle rides. It might show damage as well, but you are putting on a used 1st gear, so it doesn't matter really... the shaft is the important part. (I've looked at 1st gear itself now, and it too is damaged in the very same way)

To do it right, the shaft should be replaced. The damage to the 1st and 2nd needle races justify it technically, but I can't say how bad the noise will be, if any, from the damage; I can't say how long it will last if we build it, or if there will even be any issues at all.

The damage on 2nd needle bearing is what's called peeling or flaking, when very small portions of the smooth surface being breaking away and cause a rough texture on the race. There is some damage on the inside of the 2nd gear you are replacing as well, but since it is being replaced, it isn't a big issue.

Let me know what you want to do... if you want to build it or not on this shaft, if you do, and is the 1st needle bearing getting replaced, and what about 2nd gear needle bearing?

The 1st needle race, on the less damaged side...

The 1st needle race on the most damaged side...

2nd gear needle race damage...

 

 

Update 8/4/08

All your parts here are cleaned and oiled and ready to be installed when the replacement parts from Zelek arrive, as well as the new bearing and sync parts from my supplier.

Update 8/6/08

 

Your replacement parts arrived, and they look better. They didn't send the entire 1st/2nd sync hub assembly, they sent just the outer ring. I packaged up the entire sync assembly, so I'll pull the hub out and return just the ring and the gear, you can let them know to send the call/return tag out.

The new parts from VW will be here Monday, and I expect to have it built Monday evening or Tuesday, and will probably ship it out Tuesday evening, or Wednesday.

 

High res pics...

Returned 7/27/09

The 1st/2nd sync hub was very loose, but when I moved it over the gears and back, it clicked, which told me if there was just one spring in there, it was a good spring, because it clicked with normal force, and I suspected the springs were OK, because I didn't see where they could escape or had escaped from any of the hubs.

Once I had it open, I found all the springs on the output shaft to be in place and in good shape. That spring you sent along in the box must have come from the input shaft, which only leaves 5th gear as the source for the missing sync ring, as the other gears are here and have been accounted for.

I did find the play in the hub to be a combination of worn parts. The used inner ring for 2nd is worn out and is allowing the outer ring and sync ring to move in closer, opening the gap between the 1st and 2nd gears, allowing the operating sleeve of the sync hub assembly to move around more than it should.

I'm not sure if this is a worn gear issue, or just the ring. If I have read my notes right, we replaced the sync ring with new from VW, and the inner and outer rings were used from Zelek with the used 2nd gear.

The papers state that if the outer ring is scored, it should be replaced, and then the measurements are used for the inner ring and the sync ring. The names are kind of stupid... there is a small brass ring, it fits onto the gear first, that is the inner ring. Then  there is a steel ring with fits on, and that is the outer ring (even though it is actually in the middle) then there is the normal sync ring as found in the 020 and on the other gears in the 02A, that they decided to call just a sync ring. So there is the sync ring, then the outer sync ring, then the inner sync ring. We replaced the outer with new, and the small steel ring and small brass rings were used.

The small brass inner ring seems very worn to me, it is sitting right on the gear it seems. I need to measure the gap with a feeler, the limit is 0.3mm, and then check the sync ring if the inner ring is OK. I also see score marks on the outer ring, and the papers state it should be replaced with new.

The parts as they arrived this afternoon...

With 2nd, 3rd, and 4th pulled off the shaft, it exposes the circlip holding the 1st/2nd hub in place. I thought the circlip could have possibly snapped out of the groove, and caused the play, but it looks like it is due to the worn sync rings...

At this point I knew both springs were OK, because I could see the one on top here, and looking through the key hole, I could see the other spring in place...

Here is the other side of the hub assembly, the spring is still where it should be...

This was a new bearing, did you adjust the output shaft preload to spec, or just re-use the old shims? It might not be in spec based on the amount of wear. I'll get pics of the actual bearings when they're cleaned up and see what the rollers look like, but you might want to replace the bearings...

Everything taken apart far enough to check for the springs being in place...

This gap is JUST in spec at 0.5mm, I attribute it to the fact the the ring is new from VW, and even with the worn inner and outer used rings, the new ring is causing it to be in spec...

This is the inner ring, and it is worn, spec is 0.3mm and I can't fit any feeler in at all, so it needs replaced...

This I wanted a pic of because I don't know if it is normal or not... that is a new brass ring and a used outer steel ring, and the outer ring I think might be worn or scored enough to cause it to fit more loosely in that sync ring.

I'll post more pics later as I get it cleaned up.

Update 8/05/09

More pics of the cleaned parts, and the wear found on them.

Here is the 3rd/4th sleeve, the points are worn down on it and the 1st/2nd sleeve...

1st/2nd sleeve...

Here are points on a sync ring not worn down...

The thrust washer between 2nd and 3rd that is grooved...

The bearing race wear...

The parts out of the washer, wet with kerosene...

The parts now dried...

Wear on the 1st/2nd hub...

The parts now oiled and ready for the stuff from Zelek and from VW to arrive...

Update 8/18/09

I have your shaft built, the parts arrived late this afternoon, and I had everything ready to go, so I have it built and boxed and ready to ship out, I'll get it in the mail either tonight or tomorrow.

This is the 3rd/4th sleeve from the other shaft you sent, it is in much better shape...

The shaft being assembled with a new thrust washer between 2nd and 3rd gears...

The completed shaft...

Make note of the bent end on the spring and the funky shape of the arc of the spring in general, there is a special way the spring needs to be installed so the ends offset by 120* and they engage all 3 keys...

Thanks!